Does IS Matter?

topic posted Sun, May 18, 2008 - 8:02 PM by  Brad
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Since this came up in another discussion, but deserves its own topic...

Does Image Stabilization make a real difference in your photography? Would you pay more to have it? How much more? If it does matter, do you prefer it in the camera body proper or in the lens itself?

The world wants to know!
posted by:
Brad
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: Does IS Matter?

    Sun, May 18, 2008 - 8:44 PM
    Yes, it matters sometimes. Yes, I would absolutely pay more for IS. My understanding is that lens-based IS generally works better than body-based IS. I have gotten countless shots hand-held with IS that I couldn't have gotten any other way.

    You will pry my 24-105 f/4L IS and 70-200 f/4L IS from my cold dead hands. (Check the price tags on those and you'll see how much I'm willing to spend for IS.)
  • Re: Does IS Matter?

    Sun, May 18, 2008 - 10:41 PM

    > Does Image Stabilization make a real difference in your photography?

    Yeah.


    > Would you pay more to have it?

    Yeah (and I did, when I bought).


    > If it does matter, do you prefer it in the camera body proper or in the lens itself?

    IMHO, this is largely irrelevant; if you're into a system that offers anti-shake, *GET* it (unless you never shoot in marginal lighting... you lucky dog!) Both in-lens and sensor-based offer advantages the other doesn't, but BOTH offer so much of the same advantage that I see this as more another source of pointless flame-wars between fanboiz&grrlz, than a REALLY meaningful distinction. YMMV.


    - Steve
  • Re: Does IS Matter?

    Mon, May 19, 2008 - 10:03 AM
    I would say that for my workhorse 70-200mm f/2.8L IS lens, the main benefit of IS is reducing fatigue and tracking errors, for the situation of belly dancers on stage. IS doesn't help at shutter speeds that freeze action (like for belly dance), but not having the telephoto view in the viewfinder jumbling around while working a long show is really helpful.

    I have used IS for low-light hand-held photography, like astrophotography of the Moon, and for night scenes in dim light. IS really does work as advertised. But it's mainly useful for static scenes, due to the long shutter speeds, unless you want certain kinds of blur in your subject.

    In particular, the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS zoom lens is astoundingly sharp, and rugged, designed for continuous hours of use at low power. With my Canon EOS 1D Mark III and this lens, for a large belly dance show in March, I had one LP-E4 battery last for over 10000 shots. For the reduction of working fatigue, and the other applications, IS is well worth the slight cost differential over a non-IS lens, in my humble opinion.

    Blessings and Light,
    Michael
    • Re: Does IS Matter?

      Mon, May 19, 2008 - 2:25 PM

      > IS doesn't help at shutter speeds that freeze action (like for belly dance),

      Note (for those who don't realize) that this is true for *all* anti-shake -- if you're shooting at stop-action speeds, your antishake is largely irrelevant, as the shutter will render the photographer's jitters dramatically less, also. There are a few exceptions -- very-long-telephoto may still benefit from antishake, as the long focal-length accentuates photographer-jitters.


      > but not having the telephoto view in the viewfinder jumbling around while working a long show is really helpful.

      Another note (again, for those who don't realize) is that *this* advantage (seeing the IS/VR action "stabilize" what you see in the viewfinder) is specific to the Can/Nik/on in-lens solutions. The in-body antishake (Sony, Pentax, Olympus... um... almost all the other camera-makers, I think) don't show in the viewfinder.

      Note that this may be changing as tech advances -- when LiveView comes at streaming-video speeds from the main sensor, then sensor-based anti-shake will show you the effects on LiveView. Until that happens -- and even then, not through the optical viewfinder -- in-lens systems give your eye the same anti-shake benefit as the sensor.

      This is, IMHO, *the* Big Advantage that in-lens has over sensor-based. And, as Michael notes, it can be a really telling issue when you're handling gear for a long time, or it's heavy, or etc...

      FWIW, "*the* Big Advantage" for sensor-based antishake is the "all lens" advantage -- fast primes like 30mm/50mm/85mm 1.4's, cheap-but-good ones like 50/1.8, etc; these are "classic" low-light lenses, which cannot (yet) be had in anti-shake versions, but are anti-shaken (as are ALL lenses) on sensor-based systems (and frankly, I don't expect a "cheap" anti-shaken option from Canon or Nikon, the way you can grab an old Maxxum 50/1.7 on eBay for under a hundred bucks, and get a REALLY sharp, very fast moderate-telephoto 75mm equiv., anti-shaken on all the Sony bodies... ).


      - Steve
      • Re: Does IS Matter?

        Mon, May 19, 2008 - 10:10 PM
        This only a speculative though reasoned view on my part, but I think the in-lens IS has to work better, and more scalably than in-camera IS (or whatever it's called on DLSR cameras other than those made by Canon). The in-camera IS might have an ultimate focal length limit, or a limit at which the feature becomes degraded. If the manufacturer never intended to have a very large spectrum of focal-lengths, it might be a non-issue. But the Canon EOS architecture includes a very wide range of focal length lenses.

        It would seem that the despite all lenses having approximately the same output image circle for a 35mm system, the electromechanical tolerance and movement distance requirements for the gimbaled component that provides the IS capability would have to vary greatly by the focal length range of the lens. So this is the issue of scale: what is necessary for IS on a 600mm f/4L super-telephoto prime lens might very well be different than what's necessary for a 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS telephoto zoom lens. I would also think that the electromechanical parts that do motion sensing for IS might providentially be located at a distance from the focal plane that optimizes motion sensitivity for the center-of-gravity of the camera+lens system. I guess in rough terms, being nearer a three-axis fulcrum of motion, instead of nearer to the far-end of the system (e.g. inside the camera body).

        Blessings and Light,
        M
  • Re: Does IS Matter?

    Mon, May 19, 2008 - 3:24 PM
    For those low budgeters, an alternative if possible is have a steady hand, tripod or monopod.
    • Re: Does IS Matter?

      Mon, May 19, 2008 - 3:32 PM
      A tripod or monopod is sometimes an alternative, but not always. I do one shoot where IS saves my bacon in a serious way, and it just wouldn't work without hand-holding the camera. I'm shooting a show, and I do a lot of moving around to get different angles, especially as the performers move. I tried taking a tripod to the first couple, and it just didn't work. I bought a monopod, and found it got in my way too since I was shooting from the floor, on chairs, etc. Finally I bough the 24-105 f/4L IS and that made me a million times happier.
      • Re: Does IS Matter?

        Mon, May 19, 2008 - 9:48 PM
        I had a similar experience as you Patti.

        I also tried mono-pods with a ball head, but for most shows, really hand-holding is a must. When you are really near people, it's very easy to bump into them with either a tripod or a monopod. I've learned under these conditions that I can rotate a 1D body with the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS in about 250 ms. I found that doing that by hand is a lot faster and has much more initial orienting accuracy then using the ball head on a monopod. Even with a ball head, there is a tendency to under-correct left or right panning views, by just leaning the monopod, instead of loosing up the ball head and really rotating. You almost certainly will eventually take your eye off what you're looking at through the lens, to look at what you're doing with the ball head. All that takes time, and you might well miss a shot moving gear around. Doing what comes "natural," which is slightly canting the monopod very quickly, and not taking your eye away from the viewfinder, quite often results in shots of the stage with unnaturally bad horizontal skew. A better solution might be a rotating ring collar, but then you're still running around the show with this large stick that gets in the way.

        Hand-holding avoids all this, and is much faster. Hand-holding has also forced me to become to better at hand-holding (e.g. residual stillness when the shot is taken). As abject points out, this is a low-cost and a useful skill in general, plus it works with non-IS lenses. I'm now getting to where I can hold pretty well for Tv=1/50 to Tv=1/20. Slower than that, I cannot really hold.

        One nice saving feature of the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS lens is the built-in ring collar. For a show where I can actually have an AV platform, using that lens on a tripod really is sweet, because you can rotate views very quickly without having to adjust the tripod. In this case, you don't need an extra rotating ring collar that goes on the tripod around the whole lens.

        Blessings and Light,
        Michael
        • Re: Does IS Matter?

          Wed, May 21, 2008 - 3:16 PM
          Chocolate chip, peanut butter or sugar cookies? It is amazing how individuals have differing opinions that they will hammer home! I have in camera and it has hepled during night shots as I have the carpal tunnel shakes whentrying to hold real steady. I use many manual lenses not because I have to but because I like them, they have no options for image stabilization.....soooo my camera does. when shooting dark scenes I find it may help even with a mono pod (i tend to shake). so find what may fit you, borrow a camera if need be. visit your local camera shop on a demo day (there can be a benefit to spending a little more locally) and check out what is out there.
  • Re: Does IS Matter?

    Thu, May 22, 2008 - 10:47 PM
    i have dozens lovely shots taken with my 70-200 2.8L IS under extreme conditions that are just perfect,
    like a pair dolphins with orange dawn light reflecting of their shining backs taken from a small skiff in choppy water as they passed by quickly, just north of Lovina, Bali.

    it was a 'sniper' shot. saw them out of the corner of my eye, swung the canon and caught them about 30 yds away.

    i doubt i could've gotten the shots without IS but i just don't know 'cause i don't have a control shot.

    has anyone set a up a series of IS shots with the IS off as a control to determine effectiveness of IS?

    i just don't want to risk loosing a good shot .

    i absolutely LOVE that lens. worth every penny.
    most of my hand held shots in low light or fast moving conditions are sharp and clear.
    • Re: Does IS Matter?

      Fri, May 23, 2008 - 6:21 AM
      Various camera magazines have run tests in IS and all have concluded that you get anywhere from 2 to 4 stops extra when shooting despite circumstances. Lens based IS tends to do better than in-camera sensor based IS. Here's why; IS in both cases work by a floating element (lens or sensor) that matches movement to keep things straight. A lens has a larger floating element than a sensor, obviously, thereby increasing its effectiveness, and it has more room to maneuver in, ie: the lens barrel. However, this might still be up to the individual. I have a steady hand, and camera and lens ergonomics can also play a part. When shooting my Nikon D200 with 70-300 IS lens (effectively giving me a 450mm focal length), I gained some extra stops shooting wildlife, but when I used my Olympus E-3 and their 70-300, the Oly is in-camera and I'm getting a 600mm equivalent, something different happened. In theory the longer focal length and the in-camera sensor based IS should not have performed as well, but it performed better. It's just that the E-3 has a grip that feels like it's tailored to my hand and that may have made the difference.

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